A tale of two guitarists

[lefty]

This past weekend I played (in a studio) with a bunch of guys that the singer found on Craigslist. Our common interest is old-school NY hardcore. I prefer the slow heavy jams, but the guitarists definitely prefer the more metal kind. I was playing bass.

The studio we played at is full of boutique amps. Marshalls and Mesa Boogies would be considered "low class". The only mainstream amplifier they had was a Vox AC30.

One guitarist (a lefty!!!) played an Agile Les Paul copy with just a single pedal: a Keeley modified Boss DS-1 (forgot which amp, but it's a killer). The other played a cheapo Washburn into a cheap Digitech multi-effect unit RP-something into a VHT.

Guess who had tone for days, and who sounded like crap? The guy who played through the Digitech was showing all his riffs for possible song ideas. While jamming, I couldn't even hear the changes since it all sounded like a bunch of buzzing bees. The other guitar player cut through like a hot knife through better.

With all the high-powered amps (playing thru 4x12s), I am glad no one played with much low end, which would have drowned me out. Then again, I was playing thru an Epifani 8x10".

[gmello]

anybody who plugs a Digitech RP unit into a VHT should be permanently banned from the guitar playing community. Have you ever heard the VHT distortion?? It's amazing, he should have plugged straight into the amp.

[lefty]

Due to the way the rehearsal studio was setup, I was closer to the VHT than the guitarist one. I would help him turn the knobs when we were first setting up (more volume, less gain, etc...) That head didn't have a channel switching pedal, so I also switched channels.

When playing straight with the VHT, it sounded great. But since he was playing with the Digitech he used the clean channel and get the distortion sound from the pedal. Now, I normally do the same thing when playing guitar, but it's usually a good pedal through a clean Fender combo.

At one point he stopped playing and I heard all the echo trails. Echo? With massive distortion? I didn't care too much for his songs or attitude (won't get into that), the singer said he has been unresponsive to emails, but the other guitarist wants to do a two-guitar band.

[gmello]

yeah do a 2-guitar band but with another guitarist.. this guy sounds like a total loser

[lefty]

Played again with the same guys (different drummer). Forget about the gear, I can't stand his attitude.

He had one song with three parts. The first one starts in G. The second one ends in G. The third one starts and ends in G. So when you play a progression 1 - 2 - 3, you stay on the G without transitioning quite a bit. I told him if you just modulate the third part up to A, you will still be in key, and there will be more noticeable song shifts instead of riding one chord. He said "but the song is written and good to do as is, no need to change it".

I am a positive person that doesn't focus on negatives (I wouldn't be playing with my lack of talent!), but there are no redeeming qualities to this guy.

[efnikbug]

I predict little growth with this guy in the band.

[lefty]

Now I have the other guitar player calling me saying "damn, you're right! I can't stand his sound or his songs".

[gmello]

I can't stand people like that.

[ozziepete]

From my own little bit of experience with studio recording many years ago, I learnt that going straight through an amp into the desk via mic, is the best way.

Forget using distortion pedals or any of that. All it seems to do is muddle up the sound before the engineer gets a chance to use proper sideboard equipment (which is generally far more superior in sound reproduction than any foot pedal system that your average gigging guitarist would have).

I did a session as an assistant engineer (helping out a mate of mine who was engineering), and the guitarist insisted on using his pedal system which did nothing for his recorded sound (the dynamics were shot by the throttling effect on the signal by the pedals - comped heavily), and whenever there was a soft passage of music, there was a lot of introduced noise via the pedals. This guitarist's attitude ruined the session, and my mate lost $$ in paying for a session and not having anything to show for it at the end.

I agree that anyone who walks into a studio and announces they have a finished product ready to go, is not going to be fun to work with. (I'm assuming this fellow hadn't any sort of worked out ideas on hard disc or any sort of pre production work done, just had this great idea of his, in his head, and somehow EVERYONE else had to follow it).

If I have to cop that again, I would make my excuses & pack up and leave, as soon as I realised there was going to be this sort of attitude throughout the session.

Recording should a very fun, creative and exciting experience, not one where you walk out 4 hours later, thinking how you wrong you were thinking this guy was a good person!

Unless they have a very healthy resume of Top 10 songs, I'd be most reluctant to put up with that sort of attitude. Even with experienced and well known writers they often just have a melody line or some lyrics or a catchy tune to work with at the start.

[efnikbug]

Wow, quite enlightening. Thanks for sharing that story. Never would have seen it from a studio recording's point of view.

I was particularly impressed with this:

I learnt that going straight through an amp into the desk via mic, is the best way.

Forget using distortion pedals or any of that. All it seems to do is muddle up the sound before the engineer gets a chance to use proper sideboard equipment (which is generally far more superior in sound reproduction than any foot pedal system that your average gigging guitarist would have).

I forget what website it was, but they chronicled all the stages of this pop song recording with audio clips. During the initial stages of recording, somebody thought the sound of the snare with BB's in it sounded cool and lo-fi. But when that was sent to an engineer or whatever the next stage was, he was pissed because of the shitty recording. Essentially he had very little to work with because the sound of the snare was already colored. I don't remember, he might have just replaced the drum parts all together.

But, to me, it illustrated the idea of, record clean and clear signals, and let the engineer work it into the song. Kinda like a chef who wants clean and fresh ingredients to work with, y'know?

[gmello]

the thing is, it depends on the session..
I've done literally thousands of sessions between 94-99 when I was working as studio musician..

if you're just hired to do what you're told and play off charts that's one thing... you just want to record a tone as dry an easy to manipulate as possible.

if it's your own band or you were hired to imprint your own style that's another thing altogether and that are some effects that are parts of your style and vital to the song... and it's the engineers job to capture YOUR vision and not his to tape.

As I said it varies according to the session and who's paying for it...

[lefty]

Sept 14, 2008 22:06:24 GMT -5 ozziepete said:

From my own little bit of experience with studio recording many years ago, I learnt that going straight through an amp into the desk via mic, is the best way.

We were not recording, just simply jamming for the first time.

So the guy goes away for two weeks, and we jammed without him. Fun times. Singer tells him we don't want to play with him anymore and he gets all nasty. So glad we are dealing with his drama very early on and not later. He would have been big drama.

Now we just need a drummer (and hopefully another guitarist). Drummers are so hard to find.